The LDS (Mormon) Church, Part 2: God and Jesus

While following the conversations going on in my comments section after my last LDS post, it became clear to me that a discussion about God and Jesus is in order. Who is he? What is his nature? Why did he come to earth? The LDS church has some unique teachings in this area, so let's take a look.

Before I begin, I'd like to say that it's so very difficult to separate this discussion into different "chunks" or topics. Why did God create us? What's Heaven like? How do we get to Heaven (how are we "saved")? are but a few of the questions that I kept wanting to get into as I worked on this topic. They are touched on in this post, but I didn't go into depth. I'll do separate posts for those topics.

If you are new to this blog series and you'd like to get caught up, please go read some older posts:

1. Introduction & intent of these posts
2. Format of these posts
3. The LDS Church, Part 1: Joseph Smith



Section 1: What the LDS (Mormon) Church teaches about God and Jesus

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man's." (Doctrine & Covenants 130:22)

"God has a body that looks like yours, though His body is immortal, perfected, and has a glory beyond description." (from Mormon.org website)

Jesus is a literal spirit child of God (as are humans and Lucifer - we are all "brothers"). Jesus came to earth to "pay for our sins and to teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father." (Gospel Principles at LDS.org)

Jesus is the Son of God, and is a separate being from God. Jesus created earth by God's direction. (Mormon.org)

"And I, Jesus Christ, your Lord and your God..." (Doctrine & Covenants 17:9)

"Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen." (Doctrine & Covenants 20:28)

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Chris is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which he performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost." (Ezra Taft Benson, "The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson", 1988, p.7)

"We (men on earth) were begotten by our father in heaven: the person of our Father in Heaven was begotten on a previous heavenly world by his father; and again, He was begotten by a still more ancient father; and so on." (Mormon Apostle Orson Pratt, "Orson Pratt, The Seer" p. 23)

God never changes. (Doctrine & Covenants 74:1-4)

God used to be a man, and it is possible for men to become like God.“As man now is, God once was; as God is now man may be.” ( The Teachings of Lorenzo Snow, ed. Clyde J. Williams [1984], 1.)

"And after this manner shall ye baptize in my name; for behold, verily I say unto you, that the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost are one; and I am in the Father, and the Father in me, and the Father and I are one." (Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 11:27)

"Through the Atonement performed by Jesus Christ with His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by His suffering and the voluntary surrender of His life on the cross–He saves you from your sins as you sincerely repent and follow Him." (Mormon.org)

“There are certain eternal laws by which the Gods in the eternal worlds are governed and which they cannot violate, and do not want to violate. These eternal principles must be kept, and one principle is that no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God.” ( The Gospel Kingdom, sel. G. Homer Durham [1943], 19.)

“The minute a man stops supplicating God for His Spirit and direction, just so soon he starts out to become a stranger to Him and His works. When men stop praying for God's Spirit, they place confidence in their own unaided reason, and they gradually lose the Spirit of God.” ( “Some Sentence Sermons,” Improvement Era, Aug. 1944, 481.)

"When you can thus feel, then you may begin to think that you can find out something about God, and begin to learn who he is. He is our Father-the Father of our spirits, and was once a man in mortal flesh as we are, and is now an exalted Being.

"How many Gods there are, I do not know. But there never was a time when there were not Gods and worlds, and when men were not passing through the same ordeals that we are now passing through. That course has been from all eternity, and it is and will be to all eternity. You cannot comprehend this; but when you can, it will be to you a matter of great consolation." (Journals of Discourses, 7:331 "Progress in Knowledge", President Brigham Young, October 8, 1859)

"The Lord created you and me for the purpose of becoming Gods like Himself; when we have been proved in our present capacity, and been faithful with all things He puts into our possession. We are created, we are born for the express purpose of growing up from the low estate of manhood, to become Gods like unto our Father in heaven." (Journals of Discourses 3:80, "The Gospel of Salvation etc., President Brigham Young, August 8, 1852)

Summary of LDS beliefs about God and Jesus:
1. God has a physical body
2. God used to be a man, but has progressed to being a god
3. There are other gods besides the LDS God of this planet (or universe - unclear here).
4. Jesus is a separate being from God. Jesus is God's literal spirit child. (I'm a little unclear on this one because there is also evidence that the LDS church teaches that Jesus and God are one being). From conversations with LDS members, I believe the teaching is that Jesus and God are "one in purpose", not literally one being.
5. Jesus came to atone for humanity's sin, so that we can (a)rise from the grave and (b)have the opportunity to perfect ourselves and achieve an exalted state.
6. The Holy Ghost is a third and separate being from the Father and the Son. The Father and Son have physical bodies, but the Holy Ghost is spirit.
7. The Holy Ghost dwells in a believer. Based on a person's state of mind or behavior choices, the Holy Ghost might leave a person's presence.
8. God created humans so that we can also "progress" and become "exalted"...so that we can become gods.

Section 2: What other (non LDS) sources say about God and Jesus

"You were shown these things so that you might know that the LORD is God; besides him there is no other." Deuteronomy 4:35

"Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one." Deuteronomy 6:4

"This is what the LORD says—Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God. Do not tremble, do not be afraid. Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago? You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me? No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." Isaiah 44:6,8

"I and the Father are one." [Jesus speaking] John 10:30

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." 1 John 5:7

" These things you have done and I kept silent; you thought I was altogether like you. But I will rebuke you and accuse you to your face." Psalm 50:21

" God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill? Numbers 23:19

"Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles." Romans 1:22-23

"You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me." Isaiah 43:10

"I the LORD do not change."Malachi 3:6

"God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth." John 4:24

"Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” Luke 24:39

"Can anyone hide in secret places so that I cannot see him?" declares the LORD. "Do not I fill heaven and earth?" declares the LORD. Jeremiah 23:24

"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory." 1 Timothy 3:16

"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever." Hebrews 13:8

"I and My Father are one." [said Jesus]...The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.” John 10:30,33

"And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." Matthew 28:20

"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" 1 Corinthians 6:19

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him." John 3:16-17

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth." John 1:1-2,14 (emphasis added by me)

Summary of Biblical teachings about God and Jesus:
1. God does not have a physical body, except in the person of Jesus Christ. God the Father is spirit only.
2. God does not change. He has never changed. He had no beginning and no end. He is eternal...for infinity past to infinity present.
3. There is no God but the Almighty God of the Bible.
4. Jesus and God are literally one. Jesus is fully God. God the Father is also fully God. The Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) is also fully God.
5. Jesus came to pay the full price for humanity's sin. Anyone who believes in and accepts Jesus' sacrifice for their sin is "saved" and will spend eternity in Heaven in God's presence.
6. The Holy Spirit dwells within a believer and will never leave.

Section 3: My thoughts & comments on God and Jesus

My first impression of the LDS teachings on this topic is, "huh?" It seems that there is a difference between what is taught in Mormon "Scripture" (texts) and Mormon "Doctrine" (sermons and word of mouth). This confusion is part of what I've discussed with LDS friends. It seems pretty much standard knowledge (at least among my LDS friends) that God was once a man, and that humans can achieve godhood if they do all the required stuff. Obviously, I can't properly document every conversation I've had with friends, but what I learned from them seems to correlate with the documents I found while researching this post.

Next, I notice just how different the "Jesus" of the LDS faith is from the Biblical "Jesus". I think that this is what spurred the conversation/debate in the comments of my last LDS post.

As much as I want to find common ground between the LDS faith and Biblical Christianity on their teachings of Jesus, I just can't. The Jesus taught by the LDS church is a different Jesus than is taught by the Bible.

It's sort of like saying..."I know a guy who's name is Bill. He's a great guy. He's taught me a lot. He does wonderful things for me." And someone else says, "Hey, I think I know who you're talking about! His name is Bill...he lives in Wyoming, he's 5'6, and he's married with 10 kids." I laugh and say, "We must be talking about a different Bill! The Bill I know lives in Ireland, he's 6'3", and he's never been married." All they have in common is their name. They're clearly not the same person.

Although the LDS faith claims to be talking about the Jesus of the Bible when they use the name "Jesus", when you look at the evidence...the character and the history of the Jesus taught by the LDS church...the only conclusion that can be made is that they're talking about a different Jesus.

And the same goes for God. The LDS church teaches a "God" who was created by a god before him, who was created by a god before him, etc. The LDS church teaches that "God" was once a man and "progressed" until he was exalted as a god.

That "God", although he has the same name, is not the same God of the Bible.

As a side note, I find it so interestingly...backward...to believe that man can somehow become God, but that God (Jesus) did not become man.

It seems to me that the summaries I wrote in each section above speaks for themselves. Compare them point by point...the LDS faith and Biblical Christianity are worlds apart.

I believe the Bible. I believe in an everlasting God...not a god who has been the same only since the foundation of the earth or universe...but a truly everlasting God, from eternity past to eternity future. I believe that Jesus is God come to earth. I believe that he came to earth to fully pay for humanity's sin. I believe that the Holy Spirit (Holy Ghost) is also fully God. He has dwelled in me from the moment I invited him in, and he will never leave me nor forsake me. He will surely be with me always, to the very end of the age.

Section 4: Questions to think and pray about

1. Do you believe that there is more than one God?
2. Why are LDS scripture, LDS doctrine, and the Bible so vastly different?
3. Do you believe that you can become a god?
4. In John 10:30-33, Jesus says that he and the Father are one. The LDS interpretation of that statement is that Jesus and the Father are "one in purpose". However, the Jews hearing Jesus speak knew that Jesus was saying that he was God (which is why they picked up stones against him). What do you think Jesus was saying when he said "I and the Father are one"?
5. Consider the differences taught about the LDS God and Jesus versus the God and Jesus described in the Bible. They are vastly different, so both can not be true. Which do you think is the more accurate description of God and Jesus?

Seek The Lord Sunday: Saved And Made New

This week is another "open" week...mostly because I forgot to update the topic in my sidebar! Sorry 'bout that. I'll try to offer a suggestion again next week.

Isn't it funny the different ways that God can speak to us? Once I'm looking, I see Him and his message of love and salvation everywhere. I mean everywhere...even in the garbage can! I'll explain...

This is my favorite houseplant:

I've had this plant for 18 years (how is that even possible?!). It's a shamrock plant, and it's so delicate and beautiful. It's leaves turn a deep green with purple backs when I'm doing a good job of fertilizing it regularly. And it produces these sweet little delicate white flowers, that I love. One of my favorite things is how it's leaves close at night, and open in the daylight. But this post isn't really about a houseplant, I promise.

The main reason I love this plant is because of the way I acquired it. Before it was mine, it was my Mom's. We moved houses one hot Idaho summer and this plant got left in the car too long. It was completely shriveled and dead looking when Mom found it in the back window of the car. She dumped the pot's contents into the garbage can, and set about unpacking boxes and setting up the new house.

A day or so later, I was taking out the trash. I took off the garage can lid, and was about to put the bag of garbage in the can when I saw something odd in there. It looked like a cluster of bright orange pine cones or something. I was intrigued, so I reached in there and grabbed it out of the dirt and grime. I realized it was the root ball of Mom's "dead" plant.

Some might call me a fool...I prefer the term "optimist". I brought my strange find into the house, ran it under some water to get the gunk and dirt off of it, and I plopped it into a flower pot. I didn't even know which end was up. I just stuck it in there, covered it with dirt, and gave it some water.

To my delight, I saw little green sprouts poking their heads through the soil in about a week! I couldn't believe it!

That plant has been in that very pot ever since. Every now and then it starts to look a little weak or anemic, and I think it's dying. When that happens, I literally dump it in the garbage, shake of the dirt that's run out of nutrients, and re-plant it in new, fresh soil. Sure enough, it comes back strong once again.

I'm sure you see where I'm going with this story by now :)

These days, when I look at that plant and think of it's beginnings, I'm reminded of how I'm saved and made new by the Lord. When I think of the person I was before he got his hands on my gunky little heart...oh, I belonged in a garbage can too! But not with a God like ours! He dug me out, washed me off, and planted me in soil filled with nutrients. I thrive under his love and care. I grow...and every now and then I even sprout a flower or two.

And although I wish I never needed it, sometimes he has to "dump me back out" and start over with me. And once again, I'm clean and new. And with the right soil, a drink from the never-dry well from time to time, and a little light from the Son...I'm back to being the best me that I can be.

I'm so thankful that we have a God who's not afraid to go to the ugly and dirty parts of our lives and hearts to rescue us...proof positive that he loves us beyond reason! Our very own "dumpster-diving" God!! Ha!

Tonight, my heart is just filled with gratitude. Gratitude for being saved...gratitude for being so preciously loved...gratitude that God is bigger and better than my little mind will ever be able to comprehend this side of Heaven. Can I get an 'Amen'!

"But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life." (Titus 3:4-7)

How has the Lord touched your heart recently?

God Is An Artist, Part 5

Well, I have to start with some of the most amazing works of art ever to grace my blessed life...my babies. This is Ben and Clara before school one day this past week. I finished Clara's hair for her, she looked at herself in the mirror with a smile and said, "I think you'd better take a picture this morning...Ben and I look beautiful!"

I had to agree :)



I was picking raspberries in my garden yesterday, when I found this little guy sitting quietly on a zucchini leaf:



It was interesting to take his picture because the light kept changing, one second we were under cloud cover, the next full sun...then the breeze would blow and we'd have shade from the raspberries as they swayed. Sorry for the grainy pictures. I save them as pretty small files to use up less space here, but resolution suffered this time.



Look at that eye! And you can even see his nostrils if you look closely...



Sammy helped me water the flowers out front yesterday. She started spraying everything she could see, which irritated me a bit...since I was one of the things she could see. But then I saw what she'd done to this beautiful rose, and I ran off to get my camera. "What da matter, Mama?!", she said as I ran away :)



Have I mentioned how much I love my camera lately? And my 28-300 mm lens just gives me such amazing flexibility!


Look closely at the details around you today. I guarantee that you'll find some of God's handiwork too :)

Am I Willing?

Hey Bloggy Friends...have you read Kelli's story yet? (she's a guest writer at Rocks In My Dryer today).

You can also go straight to Kelli's blog if you'd like more info about her (I can't figure out how to get this button to link to her, sorry).

I'm feeling a bit...haunted.



I'd read Kelli's story months ago. I was so touched by this young mom who was facing a life threatening illness, that I called the donor number and requested an info packet to get signed up to be evaluated as a potential donor.

I got the packet in the mail. I filled out the papers. I got really REALLY scared about the whole idea. I filed the papers away. I pretended I never got them.

That little voice? It's been urging me to get those papers out and finish them up for some time now. I've been doing my best to ignore that voice. I hate to admit it, but sometimes I wish that little voice would leave me alone!

And then Kelli showed up at Rocks In My Dryer today. Ugh.

I went over to her site, hoping to read a post saying that they'd found her a donor. No luck.

Those dang papers.

So I dug them out of my file, finished filling them out, and sealed them all up in an envelope and sent them off. It's done. I've signed up to be a living kidney donor for Kelli Bauch.

Part of me thinks, "Hey, since the Lord seems to be prompting me to do this, maybe I'm her match! Wouldn't that be awesome?!"

But part of me thinks selfish and frightened thoughts like, "Oh no, what if I'm a match! I don't want to have surgery. What if something happens to me and I can't be a mom and wife like I want to? What if I die and leave my family without me? What if one of my own family members needs a kidney some day and I won't have one to give? What if, what if, what if...."

Obviously, I don't know what the outcome will be. But this experience of just filling out the paperwork has been eye-opening for me. How giving, how loving, how self-sacrificing am I...really? It's so easy to "talk the talk"...until it comes time to actually sign on the dotted line.

If nothing else, this has been an exercise in trusting the Lord. I might be a match for his beloved daughter, Kelli. One daughter helping another. Who am I to stand in the way of that plan? And if that's his plan? Well, then he'll probably see me through it, won't he?

And if it's his plan, but I die during surgery or from complications after? Well, my days are numbered anyway. What better way to go than to lay down my life for a friend?

Yeah, the whole thing makes my stomach turn a little too.

But here I am, at least in my heart and mind, willing. Willing to at least see what the Lord has in mind. And if what's on his mind is having me donate a kidney? Well, I trust that he'll give me enough grace and courage to deal with that...

He Gets an A+ In "Mommy Guilt 101"

Oh, my sweet boy has my heart all a jumble of pride and sadness and guilt tonight. Let me explain...

Hubby is out of town on business. I hate it when he has to be away. The kids hate it. And Hubby hates it. But hey, it's a job with relatively good security, benefits, and flexibility. I'm thankful, I really am.

But have I said this yet?...I hate it when he has to travel.

I miss my best friend. I miss under the covers toe warmer. I miss my kid's Daddy. Everything is less fun and more work without him. All of that and cold toes to boot. (sigh)

So why the pity party? Because I'm leading up to something here...

Ben has been such a joy the past couple of days. He's just been helpful and cheerful and sweet. He's my kid who, when he thinks I might be feeling sad, tells me silly jokes. After a few jokes, he'll say, "Are you feeling happy now, Mommy?"

Well, tonight as I was tucking the kids into bed Ben said, "Oh, I miss Daddy."
"Me too, buddy."
"Have you noticed Mommy? I've been trying to be really good while he's away."
"You have been extra nice haven't you?"
"Yeah! And sometimes when you ask me to do yucky stuff that I'd normally say 'no' to...lately, I've just been doing it!"
"Oh? Like what do you mean?"
"You know, Mommy...like throwing away that gross diaper when you asked me to."
"Oh, okay."
"I've been trying really hard to make it easy for you while Daddy's away. I'm the man of the house when he's not here, you know."
"I know, sweetie. And you've done a great job. You've been taking really great care of us."
"Yeah....(big sigh, as if the weight of the world is getting a bit heavy)...I sure miss Daddy."

Oh, my little man! I feel so proud of him for trying to step up and help when Daddy's gone. But is he too burdened? Have I done or said something that makes him feel responsible for my feelings? I'm the parent here...I'm the one who's supposed to make it easier on him!

I think I've said this, oh, about 94 times before...I sure hope I'm not screwing these kids up for good!

Locks Of Love Donation Tip

Today's tip is for anyone who wants to donate hair to Locks Of Love, but does not want to (or is unable to) donate the 10" they require to make a wig from the hair.

My sweet Clara Rose was in desperate need of a new 'do, and she was hooked on the idea of donating her hair to help a sick little girl somewhere (she has such a heart of gold). But if we were to cut 10" off her hair, it would have been much shorter than either of us wanted her hair to be (she still wanted to be able to do "twists").

While I was researching LOL's frequently asked questions, I learned that hair that is shorter than 10" will NOT be thrown away. Short hair is usually sold to offset wig manufacturing costs, or for short hair wigs (boy wigs maybe).

So we had her hair cut with the pony-tail holder, and we got about 5 inches. We're donating her hair to help sick kids...even if it's not necessarily made into a wig. All Clara knows is that she's helping a sick child somewhere...and that worked for her (and me!).

Want to see my other WFMW posts?

Otherwise, head on back to Rocks In My Dryer. (UH-OH! I just realized that this is a "backwards edition" of WFMW. I won't be posting this one on Shannon's list this week...but head on over there anyway. There's a long list of people looking for advice. Maybe you can help!)

Thanks for stopping by!

Movies, Movies, Movies!

Well, technically, it should probably be "movie, movie, picture" :)

Grandma has been quite demanding lately...she wants more grandkids around here! Here you go, Yaya & Papa. We miss you.

This first video was taken because I was getting such a kick out of watching Thomas eating. He adores the tomatoes from our garden...you can tell by the way he's trying to lick his tray! Turns out, Sammy and Clara got in on the action too. "Camera shy" will never be a title any of my kids hold :)

This next video is of Thomas crawling around and playing. He's so much fun these days :)

And this last shot is one of Thomas getting out of the bath...just last night!